Dialogue on the European Union, Antichrist, and the Endtimes 

To Honor Jesus Christ, Glorify God, Encourage Believers, & Warn All
Est 01-22-2005 Changed 01-23-2005
 

This information is offered with the hope that YOU can come to KNOW the Lord personally.


LETTER FROM A READER

Greetings again,

I have yet another question, why are your views different from all other prophetic views, within the Body of Christ, in reference to the anti-christ will come out of the Assyrian geographical area vs. the anti-christ will come out of the European Union (Revived Roman Empire)? 

Most prophecy teachers say that the divided legs and the toes represent 2 different stages of the Roman Empire.  The 1st when it was divided between the East and West, but that the 10 toes represent a future "coming together" so-to-speak that will bring about the rise of the anti-christ through the embodiment of what we call now the European Union.  I mean, Ezekial 38, talks about the "king of Assyria" but is that really prophetic in terms of connecting it to Daniel & the Revelations?  Why couldn't the anti-christ rise out of Revived Roman Empire that is now forming through the European Union? The countries that are now joining the EU are in the same geographical areas of where you state the anti-christ's "political" empire will be situated, and at the same time, the EU is forming the old Roman Empire and it does have its own Constitution (political system), financing structure, & its military capabilities & strength is forever-rising (soon to compete with the US').

Is it far-fetched that the other prophetic teachers and scholars are correct in their assessment?

Not trying to be critical or anything, I just want to understand and walk in clarity before I begin to teach this.  Your help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks


---

Another question...

When Daniel talks about the little horn rising out of 4 divided kingdoms of the Greek empire, the little horn that moves towards the pleasant land, wasn't this prophecy about King Antiochus Epiphanes from Syria who did this?  Because if you review history, this actually did take place and he actually did come out of the 4 divided kingdoms of the Greek empire, and he is from Syria (Assyrian).  But the other little horn that Daniel talks about is the anti-christ who comes out of the 10 horns who is more gruesome than the other ones, & who subdues 3 toes (kings).  From this prophecy of Daniel his "kingdom" is of the Revived Roman Empire, which is the European Union, who is now looking for a president to lead them b/c its democratic system consisting of about 700 total members trying to agree is not working.  There are numerous quotes from the 10 FULL members that this is what they are seeking after.  The EU already is seeking world economic unity and its euro is more valued than the US' dollar.  It's military is  stockpiling and is growing rapidly, and politically its power & influence is expanding & being accepted more than that of the US.

So, all the other prophecy scholars cannot all be wrong, can they?



ANSWER


 
 I have yet another question, why are your views  different from all other prophetic views, within the  Body of Christ, in reference to the anti-christ will  come out of the Assyrian geographical area vs. the anti-christ will come out of the European Union (Revived Roman Empire)? 

Most prophecy teachers say that the divided legs and the toes represent 2 different stages of the Roman  Empire.  The 1st when it was divided between the East  and West, but that the 10 toes represent a future "coming together" so-to-speak that will bring about the rise of the anti-christ through the
embodiment of what we call now the European Union.  


The above paragraph starting with “most prophecy teachers” seems to make perfect sense and fits the vision of Nebuchadnezzar interpreted by Daniel in Chapter 2 (the image with the ten toes) until you get to the part written in red.

It is interesting to note that Daniel chapter 7 is MORE detail about Chapter 2 and Chapter 8 is more detail about Chapter 7.  There is a progressive revelation to Daniel about the endtimes.  For example, in the 2nd chapter there are 10 toes (but nothing growing out of the 10 toes).   Whereas, in the 7th chapter the 4th beast (which everyone agrees IS Rome, including me, at least in the Iron of its legs) has 10 “horns” (DURING THE END TIMES) which had a “little horn” come up among them (DURING THE END TIMES).  These 10 “horns” correspond to the 10 “toes” of the Chapter 2 image.  The “little horn” is additional information about the 10-horned empire in the endtimes.  Before we continue this discussion with Daniel Chapter 8 (which gives us even more information about the “little horn”), let’s discuss the two-legs of the Roman Empire per se.

The Roman Empire divided into 2 parts (as predicted by the image of Nebuchadnezzar) into Eastern Rome and Western Rome.  The dividing line of this event (that has ALREADY taken place over 1000 years ago) goes right through modern day Serbia/Bosnia.  (By the way, it is no small coincidence that UN troops are there, but that is another topic).

All of the present day EU is on the Western Side of the dividing line.  Then, ceteris paribus, how can the 10 toes upon the divided legs be represented by the EU (all of which is on one side of the divide) unless the EU expands to include Egypt, Israel, Turkey, Syria (all of which were part of the old Roman Empire)?  I am not saying that this will not happen.  The fact is – it is likely and I will be writing on this later.  However, this changes nothing about the specific geographic origin of the antichrist .  The extension of the EU into the region of the antichrist (or the merger of the EU and the antichrist) will likely occur only AFTER the tribulation is well underway.  I must point out that antichrist will “merge” with everyone. 

There are lots of different ways to look at this question, but, let’s look at the additional revelations (about the 4 beasts) in Daniel Chapter 8 before we go further.  Remember, the topic at hand is not the identity of the 10-toes (10-horns) but the origin of the antichrist.  We will return to the 10-toes later in another discussion.

In Chapter 8 a vision is given to Daniel showing how Alexander the Great would conquer the Medo-Persian Empire and that the antichrist would rise from one of the 4 kingdoms into which Alexander's dominion was broken.

(The RAM is the Medo-Persian Empire, also the 2nd beast, the “bear”)
Daniel 8:3   Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.

Daniel 8:4   I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.

(Alexander the Great, the 3rd, leopard beast, defeats the Medo-Persian empire.) 
Daniel 8:5   And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.

Daniel 8:6   And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power.

Daniel 8:7   And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand.

(Alexander the Great's kingdom has now been broken into 4 parts.   The 4 parts were Thrace, Macedonia, Syria, and Egypt .)
Daniel 8:8   Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.

(Out of ONE of these 4 parts of Alexander the Great’s Empire comes a " little horn" who "takes away the daily sacrifice."  This “little horn ” of Chapter 8 is the same “little horn ” of  Daniel Chapter 7, which rose out of the “ ten horns”) 

Daniel 8:9   And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east , and toward the pleasant land.

Daniel 8:10   And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. (NEVER DID ANTIOCHUS EPIPHANES DO THIS)

Daniel 8:11   Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away , and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

Daniel 8:12   And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practiced, and prospered.

Daniel now seeks for the MEANING of this vision
 (Daniel 8:3-12).

Daniel 8:15   And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel , had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning , then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.

The angel Gabriel makes known the meaning.
Daniel 8:16   And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.

The TIME of the vision is AT THE END
Daniel 8:17   So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.   (THEREFORE, DANIEL 8:3-12, IS NOT ANTIOCHUS EPIPHANES.)

Daniel 8:18   Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright.

Daniel 8:19   And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

Gabriel shows that the RAM was Medo-Persia
Daniel 8:20   The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. (2nd beast)

Gabriel shows that the goat was Alexander the Great
Daniel 8:21   And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.  (3rd beast)

Gabriel shows that 4 parts of Alexander the Great''s kingdom will survive, but with less power.
Daniel 8:22   Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.


A KING OF FIERCE COUNTENANCE in the LATTER TIME ARISES  out of These PARTS
Daniel 8:23   And in the latter time of their kingdom (whose kingdom? The 4 parts of Alexander’s Kingdom) , when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance , and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

Daniel 8:24   And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practice, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

HE SHALL MAGNIFY HIMSELFand BY PEACE SHALL DESTROY MANY
Daniel 8:25   And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart , and by peace shall destroy many:

HE SHALL STAND UP AGAINST JESUS CHRIST and SHALL be BROKEN BY THE SMITING STONE
(Daniel 8:25 continued) he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes ; but he shall be broken without hand.    (ANTIOCHUS EPIPHANES NEVER STOOD UP AGAINST CHRIST NOR WAS ANTIOCHUS EPIPHANES “BROKEN”; HE DIED A NATURAL DEATH IN BC 165 AT TABAE .)

Jesus Christ is the stone cut without hands.  This stone will smite the antichrist.

The last vestiges of a "world"  empire described in the book of Daniel is seen in Revelation 13:1-2 .  These characteristics are like a leopard (Greece), with feet of a bear (Medo-Persia), and the mouth of a lion (Babylon).  The "body" (the dominating feature of the beast is therefore Grecian (or the descendents of Grecian, i.e., Assyrian).   This "world" empire will occupy an area substantially equivalent to that of Alexander the Great's eastern empire, which is Jordan/Iraq initially.  Later it will extend itself as follows:

Daniel 8:9   And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east,   and toward the pleasant land (Israel).

Since the BODY of the beast in Revelation 13 is that of a LEOPARD (Rev 13:2), it follows that the "little horn" that comes out of the "fourth horn" of the He-Goat (Greece, a leopard) is the same as the "little horn" of the 4th beast (the Roman residual, not a Roman "empire") of Daniel Chapter 7 and of Daniel Chapter 8.

Daniel's Fourth Beast (the Revived "Roman residual") and It's "Little Horn"
Daniel 7:7   After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

Daniel 7:8   I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

Remember, too, the ten kings (ten horns) RECEIVE POWER AS KINGS ONE HOUR WITH THE BEAST (antichrist).  Revelation 17:12   This means that the ten kings arise AFTER the beast empire is an entity (see Revelation 13).  These are your 10 TOES.  The unification with the antichrist and the ten kings occurs AFTER the mid point of the tribulation.  These 10 kings may be “Roman” or they may be Moslem.  See this http://jesus-is-the-way.com/TenKings.html  (OR BOTH)
  I am going to be writing about this later.

It is the FALSE PROPHET who establishes and enforces the worship of the antichrist and the MARKing program on the world (not the antichrist himself).  See Revelation 13:11-18.  It is, therefore, a religious system that has world power, not the antichrist per se.

The WILLFUL king described in Daniel 8:11 above is the same willful king as shown in

Daniel 11:36   And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.


 The following confirms that the antichrist comes from a region east of Israel

Daniel 8:9   And out of one of them [ one of Alexander the Great's 4 divisions ] came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east and toward the pleasant land

If this kingdom waxes EXCEEDING GREAT,
TOWARD THE SOUTH,
EAST,
and the PLEASANT LAND (Israel/Palestine).


Follow me here:  these directions point to 3 mutually exclusive compass directions.

 
The kingdom is growing in THREE (3) directions. 
If the kingdom was West of Israel, EAST and the PLEASANT LAND would be the same direction.  Therefore, the kingdom is NOT west of Israel. 

If the kingdom was North of Israel, the SOUTH and PLEASANT LAND would be redundant. Therefore, the kingdom is not north of Israel. 

This leaves SOUTH of Israel and EAST of Israel as our 2 choices.  We have to eliminate the SOUTH of Israel because the antichrist attacks and conquers the king of the south - Egypt .

This leaves us with EAST of Israel as the place of the new "entity."  This is the exact place of the " redrawn Mid-eastern map " of Wolfowitz and Cheney.  Jordan/Iraq is the place.  The United States policy in the Mideast is to build a central democratic state, which should eventually (they hope)  lead to a "free" and democratic group of nations that will presumably not support terrorism. Some have said that the "armageddonists" are supporting the war in Iraq in order to facilitate the second coming of Christ, but, this is a ridiculous notion.  Right or wrong, the Bush administration is conducting the war in Iraq for the very reason that they stated - "freeing" Iraq.  Unknown to the Bush administration is the fact that they are building a "free" nation in the very center of the future Biblical kingdom of the antichrist.

Assyria is a place that is east of Israel.

I mean, Ezekiel 38, talks about the "king of Assyria" but is that really prophetic in terms of connecting it to Daniel & the Revelations?  Why couldn't the anti-christ rise out of Revived Roman Empire that is now forming through the European Union? The countries that are now joining the EU are in the same geographical areas of where you state the anti-christ's "political" empire will be situated, and at the same time, the EU is forming the old Roman Empire and it does have its own Constitution (political system), financing structure, & its military capabilities & strength is forever-rising (soon to compete with the US').

Seriously, if you ask anyone if Iraq is in the EU, what would they say?  Is it CLEARER to anyone to say that the antichrist is from the EU if he is from Assyria (no matter what the future EU may cover)? Clearly not.   By the way, present extension proposals include Romania, Bulgaria, and Turkey.   To say antichrist is from the EU is to CONFUSE everyone.

Are you saying that Assyria is joining the EU? 

If you are saying that Jordan and Iraq are going to join the EU, what is the point in even discussing this?  If the WORLD GOVERNMENT extends to the WHOLE PLANET, will the WORLD GOVERNMENT not cover Assyria and the EU?  My point is that antichrist will arise out of Assyria because the Bible says so.  Is your point that the Bible mentions the EU by name?  The Bible only mentions the 10 toes/horns and the Roman Empire, which did cover parts of the Middle East.  One thing is certain.  Saying the antichrist is from the EU does help him rise in obscurity.

The antichrist is from Assyria:

Isa 10:12   Wherefore it shall come to pass, that when the Lord hath performed his WHOLE WORK upon mount Zion and on Jerusalem, I will punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria , and the glory of his high looks. 
 
Isa 14:25   That I will break the Assyrian in MY land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.

These prophecies must be fulfilled AFTER Christ returns and has done his WHOLE WORK upon Jerusalem. His WHOLE WORK upon Jerusalem includes the tribulation.

 
Is it far-fetched that the other prophetic teachers and scholars are correct in their assessment?

What assessment are you referring to?  It MIGHT be true that  the 10 kings are from the EU (I’m going to write a page on this very soon).  (I have said before and it is (still?) on my website somewhere that there could be 5 kings from East Rome and 5 Kings from West Rome.) However, in NO CASE is the antichrist from the present EU.  EU means European Union, emphasis on the word EUROPE.   The Bible is absolutely clear that the Antichrist is from Assyria.  Even if you discount Isaiah 14:25 and Isaiah 10:12 and throw them out (which you can not), Daniel chapter 8 makes it perfectly clear that antichrist arises from the residual of Alexander the Great’s empire (AND to be more exact) THAT PORTION EAST of Jerusalem.  [No part of Alexander's Empire was ever in the present day European Union]. So, in no way can it be Biblically maintained that antichrist is from Europe.   To say that the EU could eventually unite with the Middle East is to say the antichrist kingdom will be world wide eventually.  No one asserts anything to the contrary – not this author and not the “scholars.”


Another question...

When Daniel talks about the little horn rising out of 4 divided kingdoms of the Greek empire, the little horn that moves towards the pleasant land, wasn't this prophecy about King Antiochus Epiphanes from Syria who did this?  Because if you review history, this actually did take place and he actually did come out of the 4 divided kingdoms of the Greek empire, and he is from Syria (Assyrian). 


It is clear from Daniel Chapter 8 that the vision is for the endtime because the angel SAID that the vision is for the end time, Dan 8:17, and therefore not for Antiochus (as I described above).  It is also clear from the specifics discussed above that Antiochus could not have fulfilled them in any case.  He never fought against the prince of the host of heaven, Jesus Christ; nor was Antiochus “broken without hand.” 


So, all the other prophecy scholars cannot all be wrong, can they?

If they disagree with the Bible, they are all wrong. I generally do not read popular authors.  (I do read the “old” authors, however, such as Larkin, Dwight Pentecost’s Things to Come, etc). The more popular a man is, the less likely he is correct.  Men’s opinions do not matter, only the Bible.   My question to you is – why do you care if they happened to be wrong?    Let God be true and every man a liar, if they differ.

I am glad you wrote because it helps me to understand the Bible and clarify things if I have to explain it.  Plus, your questions help me to focus on the prophecies themselves even more.  Every time I read them, it is helpful.  The problem with most “scholars” is that they do not RETURN to the Bible so that they can rethink their present viewpoint.

It is not a good idea to begin with our viewpoint, only with the Bible.


01-23-2005

Some might object to the above interpretation using Daniel 9:26 to mean that the antichrist is from a Roman country.  Daniel 9:26 says that the " people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary..."  The people who destroyed the city and the sanctuary WERE Romans and they fulfilled this prophecy in 70AD.  This part of the verse refers to the ancestors of the future prince, not to the geographical location from which the prince will arise.  

Given this verse and the above verses, it would be accurate to say that the antichrist will be the King of Assyria, his empire will arise EAST of Jerusalem, and that he will have at least one parent of Roman ancestry.

End 01-23-2005


 
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